Just wondered, as I have seen many rigs here among the MLC@H user base that run a system with a higher-end Zen2 Ryzen 3000 series chip, such as the Ryzen 7 3700/3800/3900/3950 X/XT and or Threadripper chips.

I recently read a lot about the bad quality of their boxed coolers and wanted to know what heatsink/fan combo you are running with. How hot do those chips run under full load?

And do you have any recommendation for a suitable motherboard that you have made great personal experience with so far and/or others that you definitely would not recommend?

Any suggestion/experience appreciated!

The boxed cooler works well enough, though results in a lower all-core boost clock compared to a better after-market cooler. The Wraith Prism cooler included with the higher-end CPUs works well. The Wraith Stealth is good for SFF, but not great. Ryzen is designed and intended to always boost to its limit of power and temperature, so they will run hot when loaded down with BOINC tasks. It the temperature is high (90C), the CPU is probably running closer to its base clocks and would benefit from a better cooler, although the benefits for BOINC would not be large. For example, my CPU with a Evo 212 ran all-core tasks at 4GHZ and >85C, but ran at 4.1GHz and 80C with a NH-D15.

I recently read a lot about the bad quality of their boxed coolers and wanted to know what heatsink/fan combo you are running with. How hot do those chips run under full load?

My Threadrippers (1950x) are liquid cooled and are limited to 68C max at 100% CPU load. I would not recommend air cooling but that is just my personal preference.

I've got a Ryzen 7 3700X. It replaced a Haswell i5-4600K which had a massive Noctua air cooler. The Ryzen''s Wraith Prism cooler is much, much smaller.

For MLC -- and, really any project not named GIMPS, SRBase, or PrimeGrid -- the Wraith Prism is adequate for the 3700X. I can't speak about the 3800 and higher CPUs, not the Threadrippers. The 3800 is probably fine with the Wraith Prism, and the 3900 possibly. Beyond that, I won't speculate.

If, however, you're running any of the three specific projects I mentioned, you're talking about a different level of power and heat due to the way the gwnum library -- which is central to those three projects -- works. I can just barely keep the 3700X at reasonable temperatures running certain PrimeGrid tasks. So far, I'm managing with the Wraith Prism, but I'm prepared to get a much better Noctua if i have to.

Note that if you're used to Intel CPUs, the Ryzen's are a little strange. They boost clock frequencies very aggressively, so you have the odd scenario where running *fewer* cores sometimes results in *higher* temperatures. To get the temperatures down, sometimes it helps to run more, not less.

Regardles of what cooler you use, and whether it's air or water, I suggest that instead of using any sort of thermal paste, you use this graphite cooling pad: https://www.amazon.com/Innovation-Cooling-Graphite-Thermal-Pad/dp/B07CKVW18G/ It comes in 30mm and 40mm sizes, cools better than paste, never dries out, and is reusable. Besides being better in general, it also makes swapping coolers for testing much easier!

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Regardless of what cooler you use, and whether it's air or water, I suggest that instead of using any sort of thermal paste, you use this graphite cooling pad: https://www.amazon.com/Innovation-Cooling-Graphite-Thermal-Pad/dp/B07CKVW18G/ It comes in 30mm and 40mm sizes, cools better than paste, never dries out, and is reusable. Besides being better in general, it also makes swapping coolers for testing much easier!

Thanks for bringing that up, Michael. I too can recommend these for the same reasons you mentioned. Costs less than a tube of "goo" and the necessary removal and cleaning compounds; works great for me and one never needs to do it again.

Thanks guys for your input. Much appreciated!

Well W8n4Singularity, I guess I will try then probably first running BOINC with only the boxed cooler. If temps were to get uncomfortably high, I would also consider upgrading to a more powerful heatsink. I would definitely consider 85 degrees sustained under full load my upper limit. Thanks for providing these numbers!

What I didn't know so far was what you and Michael Goetz have pointed out, that those chips are designed to boost to their limit according to what is thermally possible. Given that characteristic I think it would be smart to consider this the only long-term option as otherwise the chip's longevity would suffer and the system would just be too loud.

Water cooling is a luxury that I can't afford, won't fit in the case I am looking at currently and know too little about to feel comfortable doing that with new hardware :) But 68 degrees under full load is just great Dataman!

Thanks Michael for pointing out this graphite cooling pad. From the look of it, the surface area is not as smooth as if applying paste. I guess graphite must have a tremendous thermal conductivity... Never having to replace it and reusability definitely sounds very attractive. On Amazon Germany this retails at a very similar price, thus I'll probably check it out.

Did you already choose a processor? My personal choices for a dedicated cruncher are the Ryzen 3600 or 3900X. The 3600 is "only" a 6 core processor but it generates as much output as the older 8 core 1700X. If you want something bigger and can accept a worse price/power ratio go for the 3700X or 3950X. No Threadripper or Ryzen XT.

I guess I will try then probably first running BOINC with only the boxed cooler. If temps were to get uncomfortably high, I would also consider upgrading to a more powerful heatsink.

If it's okay for you to replace the cooler later try the boxed one first but expect the temperature to get uncomfortably high either way. If you improve cooling the processor only runs faster but not significantly cooler. To reduce temperature you need to force it to slow down, by limiting power or clock rate.

Water cooling is a luxury that I can't afford, won't fit in the case I am looking at currently

For air cooling of high power processors it is vital to keep the case as cool as possible which in my experience doesn't work well with small cases. And the most effective CPU coolers are also BIG. Keep that in mind when you choose your case.

Note about those graphite cooling pads: They are electrically conductive, and somewhat slippery. What several people do, to keep them from sliding off the CPU while you're installing the heatsink, is to use a dab of thermal paste in the corners to anchor the pad in place.

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Want to find one of the largest known primes? Try PrimeGrid. Or help cure disease at WCG.

Did you already choose a processor? My personal choices for a dedicated cruncher are the Ryzen 3600 or 3900X.

How much performance would be left on the table by choosing a 3600X over a 3700X? And is the 3700X in between the two other mentioned 3600X/3900X really less bang for the buck? Was indeed eyeing the 3700X and 3600X ... I just mentioned the Threadrippers as well not because I was playing with the thought of getting one of these but rather as I thought they would fit well together with the other high-performance Ryzen chips that would all need to handle the cooling issue.

If it's okay for you to replace the cooler later try the boxed one first but expect the temperature to get uncomfortably high either way.

I'll think about it. But I don't want to fry my new processor in the first few weeks of running it 24/7 at unbearable temps. Investing upfront in a decent cooler and accounting for the required space to mount it properly sure doesn't sound like a bad idea.

For air cooling of high power processors it is vital to keep the case as cool as possible which in my experience doesn't work well with small cases. And the most effective CPU coolers are also BIG. Keep that in mind when you choose your case.

I was looking at larger Noctua and Alpenföhn coolers. Think those should be the best aftermarket air coolers that are currently available. Hope that in the end running long term with air cooling won't hurt the chip too much as opposed to water cooling. This is why I also want a case with great ventilation and at least 4 fans that assure a constant air flow.

Currently not sure if a mid-tower case will do it (single GPU, 3600/3700 X, air cooling) or whether I should rather look into big tower cases....

... to keep them from sliding off the CPU while you're installing the heatsink, is to use a dab of thermal paste in the corners ...

That's great to know. I'll certainly give it try! Thanks for the heads-up!

How much performance would be left on the table by choosing a 3600X over a 3700X?

Given that they are equal otherwise you can compare them by clock rate and number of cores. That should give the 3700X a 26% advantage at 35% higher price. But I did not suggest the 3600X for other reasons and if you want an 8 core Zen2 the 3700X is without alternative for me.

And is the 3700X in between the two other mentioned 3600X/3900X really less bang for the buck?

Yes, but not by much. The 3600 without X should give you the best bang for the buck. It's just not a really big bang and only you know how important the buck is.

Was indeed eyeing the 3700X and 3600X

I would not suggest the 3600X, nor the 3800X. They are a bit faster than the 3600 and 3700X respectively, but look what that does to the TDP! Power draw goes through the roof, as well as temperatures potentially, for not much gain. Someone will probably jump in and suggest some tweaks to counteract that. Personally I prefer not to experiment but run my processors at stock speed, with acceptable output and rock stable.

I was looking at larger Noctua and Alpenföhn coolers. Think those should be the best aftermarket air coolers that are currently available.

Noctuas get good reviews, enthusiastic sometimes, but I don't have personal experiences with them. They're too expensive for me. EKL Brocken 3 was my first choice cooler for the 3900X but it was clear it wouldn't fit in my case so I changed to a Scythe Mugen 5. Somewhat smaller but still a big thing and with equally good reviews. Turned out it didn't fit either so I had to use a big old case I still had around. Only one 120mm fan each at front and rear so it heats up quickly, negating the effect of the IMO capable cooler. Will have to change that some time.
Speaking of bad decisions, I got a quite expensive gaming mainboard for that system to make sure it could reliably provide power for a 105W TDP processor running full throttle 24/7, only to find out I can't do that because of the temperature. Waste of money. Next time I'd choose a good middle class mainboard, just don't buy cheap. And I'd definitely want heat sinks on the VRMs if not using the stock top blowing cooler.

Hope that in the end running long term with air cooling won't hurt the chip too much as opposed to water cooling.

Don't worry. Air cooling a 65W TDP processor shouldn't be a problem if you don't try to squeeze the last bit of power out of it. Stay away from the 3600X/3800X with high TDP and if you choose a 3900X or (expensive!) 3950X avoid my mistakes. A good case is a good start.

Thanks for getting back to me! Yeah, I see the first point you made about the higher TDP of lets say the 3600X over the 3600 and 3700X. Currently I see the 3600 retailing at 169€ whereas the 3700X is very steeply priced at around 279€ on average. That's even more than you outlined for me in Germany at least. So the economically sound decision is obvious...

Definitely going to settle for a 65 W TDP rated CPU. Still speccing out my system, but making progress on the case selection. I decided on a MSI MPG 550 Gaming Edge WiFi mobo, that seems to offer all the connectivity and even more than I need. As I plan to run this rig as a dual-GPU system, even though initially only with a 1660Ti paired with a 750Ti, I want to eventually upgrade but time will tell. For that purpose case and airflow planning definitely take a priority right now. Also I don't want to be restricted by the interior size to consider other future upgrades.

It's just not a really big bang and only you know how important the buck is.

Well, coming from a Xeon X5660, the jump to a 3600 will be huge for me :) My laptop based i5 4278U is only making matters worse, but that's currently the latest hardware I own. I skipped a couple generations of CPU and GPU innovation! And my budget is constrained to the 1000-1100€ mark.

Noctuas get good reviews, enthusiastic sometimes, but I don't have personal experiences with them. They're too expensive for me. EKL Brocken 3 was my first choice cooler

I agree on the price front. But apparently they are unmatched performance-wise at air cooling. The Brocken 3 definitely sparks my interest but there's a lot of reports that it is quite load under heavy load.

Don't worry. Air cooling a 65W TDP processor shouldn't be a problem if you don't try to squeeze the last bit of power out of it.

At the moment I am considering a beQuiet dark rock 4 but that is not far off Noctua's price. Don't know yet but the cooling decision definitely should have priority when deciding to run the system 24/7. I don't wanna leave the house, leaving it own, when I see horrendous temps. Would fear to burn the house down. :) Not being able to squeeze the last bit of juice out of the chip would be okay for me.

Regarding the case I am looking into the bequiet! Silent Base 601 Midi Tower. Nothing fancy but not too shabby for the price. Has great opportunities to install lots of fans for great airflow and allows for bigger cpu heatsinks, however restricts GPUs to a size of only 285mm which makes it quite impossible to consider let's say any RTX triple slot cards. So future upgradability is kind of inhibited. Its larger cousin, the be quiet! Silent Base 801 has similar features but allows due to its larger dimensions also to run the rig with most latest gen RTX cards. Probably by then, the room won't be an issue anymore anyway, but rather airflow and cooling issues. Still figuring it out, but thanks so far for the pointers!

Note about those graphite cooling pads: They are electrically conductive, and somewhat slippery. What several people do, to keep them from sliding off the CPU while you're installing the heatsink, is to use a dab of thermal paste in the corners to anchor the pad in place.

The link you included, basically offers a 30x30mm and 40x40mm version. I currently think about replacing my current thermal paste cooling solution in my laptop with a graphite pad instead. My CPU is a i5 4278U. It is not symmetrically shaped and fused to my laptop's mobo. Now my question, as graphite is electrically conductive, can I simply cut the 40x40 pad into fitting pieces to cover both components individually? Would I be risking to short my mobo if the pad were to overlap the CPU and touch the mobo under operation?

Note about those graphite cooling pads: They are electrically conductive, and somewhat slippery. What several people do, to keep them from sliding off the CPU while you're installing the heatsink, is to use a dab of thermal paste in the corners to anchor the pad in place.

The link you included, basically offers a 30x30mm and 40x40mm version. I currently think about replacing my current thermal paste cooling solution in my laptop with a graphite pad instead. My CPU is a i5 4278U. It is not symmetrically shaped and fused to my laptop's mobo. Now my question, as graphite is electrically conductive, can I simply cut the 40x40 pad into fitting pieces to cover both components individually? Would I be risking to short my mobo if the pad were to overlap the CPU and touch the mobo under operation?

Yes, you need to be careful about not shorting the components.

You'll need to cut out individual pieces, and make sure each piece stays in place.

Unless I had a good reason not to, I'd just use thermal paste.

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Want to find one of the largest known primes? Try PrimeGrid. Or help cure disease at WCG.

All right. Already thought this would be the case. Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely keep it in mind though as an alternative to thermal paste for the new (and symmetrical) CPU.

Water cooling is a luxury that I can't afford, won't fit in the case I am looking at currently and know too little about to feel comfortable doing that with new hardware :) But 68 degrees under full load is just great Dataman!

If you end up getting a case that is large enough, you can go with an AIO liquid cooling system. It's what I did for my 3900X.

Not a lot more complicated than mounting a heatsink and fans IMO. Some, sure, but not a lot.

And it's much quieter.

I also turned off I think it was called PBO Boost. The CPU runs much cooler now.

you can go with an AIO liquid cooling system

Thanks for pointing that out! Still looking into that, but I am not sure yet. So far I planned to go with a decent sized full tower case with great airflow, so I thought that a high-quality air cooler would do just fine as I am also eying the 3700X/3600 cpus that only run at 65W for which air-cooling hopefully should prove more than sufficient. Anyways, still speccing out everything and might as well consider an AIO.

Should I hopefully add a second rig in the future, I would definitely go with a higher TDP-rated CPU and then I'll go with an AIO!

I also turned off I think it was called PBO Boost. The CPU runs much cooler now.

That's great to know!